(4.19) This quote early in the book is a good introduction to the reasons for blame. But Kevin is just getting started, and … 4 - what role do Kevin's doctors and teachers have? He thought he knew. in regards to the percentage of responsibility each character has for Kevin's massacre. But people like this end up doing fucked up things at some point. The very ending of the book is odd after she visits Kevin in prison, do you agree? I think answering those can determine how much we can blame Eva-- or was he born like that? Lol thank you, I think about the book a lot and the more I do the more layers come to mind. In the novel, he had kept a photo of her which she assumed he had torn to shreds. His mother thought he hated her but there were indications that he was dying for her attention and approval. One thing Eva finally does that she hasn't been able to do in the years after Kevin's crime is to ask him flat-out why he did it. “Mommy was happy before Kevin came along. Franklin vs Eva Olga Jul 02, 2013 01:34PM. Stream the episode above and subscribe to the series now. I do think he's evil, but what made him that way is intriguing. Implausible Psycho: “We Need to Talk About Kevin”, ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: When Art Confronts Tragedy, Beyond the Final Girl: We Need to Talk About Kevin and Motherhood in Horror. Press J to jump to the feed. Kevin is the most guilty. 5 - do you empathize with Eva? We spent hours, over days, having tests done. We Need to Talk About Kevin Guilt and Blame. Summary: We Need to Talk About Kevin explores the factious relationship between a mother and her evil son. We Need to Talk About Kevin movie tie-in A Novel download reddit audiobook We Need to Talk About Kevin movie tie-in A Novel audiobook — Implausible Psycho: “We Need to Talk About Kevin”, — ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: When Art Confronts Tragedy, — Beyond the Final Girl: We Need to Talk About Kevin and Motherhood in Horror, G Herbo Arrested for Stealing Identities to Pay for Vacation, Designer Puppies, More, Phoebe Bridgers Performs “Savior Complex” with a Piano Playing Ghost on Fallon: Watch, Ariel Pink Finds An Ally in Tucker Carlson, Saved By the Bell Star Dustin Diamond Diagnosed with Stage 4 Cancer, King Crimson's Robert Fripp and Wife Toyah Gift Us with Metallica's "Enter Sandman" on an Exercise Bike: Watch, WandaVision Promises a New Beginning for the Marvel Cinematic Universe: Review, Bandcamp Expands Its Vinyl Pressing Service to Accommodate 10,000 Indie Artists, Bookclub – Lionel Shriver – We Need to Talk About Kevin. I don't like Eva, but I think Shriver chose her for the narrative because you get to see how much of her abuse does have influence, but also how ridiculous the level of blame by the locals is as well. Based on the best-selling novel of the same name, We Need to Talk About Kevin explores nature vs. nurture on a We Need to Talk About Kevin explores … We need to talk about Kevin, By Lionel Shriver, Serpent's Tail, $22.95 Well before the post-September 11 security crackdown, there were metal-detectors in American schools. I've both read the book and watched the movie so lemme know if I am mixing them up. Previous Next . I think if it was told from a different POV we would probably assign blame a little differently, but no one else really ever picked up on the fact that Kevin was, for lack of better word, evil. With Tilda Swinton, John C. Reilly, Ezra Miller, Jasper Newell. The novel We Need to Talk About Kevin by Lionel Shriver is a chilling depiction of the actions of a son and the effects that it has on his mother, however under the surface, the true story depicts the dark side of motherhood. This question was recently posed to Reddit users, and some of the results were a little surprising. If we had the same narrative style from a different character and knew their innermost thoughts, would we place more responsibility on them? I think everyone is to blame, but I can't assess the majority of where it lies. By Lionel Shriver. We … And this week when Reddit user zackjbryson asked, "What is the most disturbing book that you have ever read? If so, should they have? I don't think can blame Eva for her lack of maternal instinct, especially when she didn't want to have kids in the first place. It speaks to the worst human fear imaginable: that evil lurks, not in the outside world, but right at home. Review by Peanutscratch ★★★½ . Ik this is an old comment, but how are things now with the child? Last Updated on October 26, 2018, by eNotes Editorial. In true "when your only tool is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail", the school insisted he had ADD/ADHD. 1 - does Kevin have the majority of the blame because we are responsible for our actions? Tilda Swinton plays the mother, Eva, as she contends for 15 years with the increasing malevolence of her first-born child, Kevin. If so, to what degree? 6 - what role does the narrative style, that being Eva recounting Kevin's life and detailing her guilt and admitting everything she did wrong, influence our perception of Eva's responsibility? People are born this way. The question about nature vs. nurture has gone on for a long time, and I think killers are both born and made. People always ignore the warning songs because it “won’t happen to them”. To ask other readers questions about We Need to Talk About Kevin, please sign up. Word Count: 2350. […] So I blamed me, and he blamed me. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. What made it disturbing?" Did they perhaps notice developmental issues and not inform his parents? I am not a parent, but I think parent's face so much guilt and worry obsessively over the things they did, so it could be possible that Eva's abuse was lesser than what she recounted it to be, or less impactful on Kevin. I think Kevin was simply born that way. Overall, I feel as though "We Need to Talk About Kevin" serves as a grim reminder of the consequences faced when damage is allowed to perpetuate (whether that be through personal infliction of it or lack of action to remedy it). Kevin is a mass-murderer: a boy who, shortly before his 16th birthday, kills seven classmates, a teacher and a school cafeteria worker. We need to talk about "Kevin." I am not a parent (nor do I want to be one) so I cannot speak from experience. I think the lesson here is that it is an incredibly complex issue without one sole person to blame. Interesting. Jim Spellman via Getty Images "What name is considered to be trashy in your country?" Maybe the abuse push him to do this in an early age. He didn't have ADD/ADHD. But ultimately it’s Kevin’s fault. Guilt and Blame. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? We need to talk about it. I agree, everyone is to blame to varying degrees. Is that within their control? Father's bond with their children typically months after they are born, so can we call a father evil if he hasn't yet bonded with his child? She knew what he was and everyone else denied it or couldn't see through it. The fact that she even thinks of herself as evil and that Kevin came out evil because she is evil is odd. I knew he didn't. Answered Questions (17) I only saw the movie and I exonerate his mother completely of any fault. A suspenseful and gripping psychological thriller, Lynne Ramsay’s WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN explores the fractious relationship between a mother and her… It has SPOILERS. Can we think poorly of anyone if nothing is in anyone's control because we're all deterministic machines? Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? On the note of "people are born this way", check out the documentary "Child of Rage" - it explores that further and is very interesting. So, was the school responsible? I think We need to talk about Kevin is a great book for discussion, there are many points that could be pulled apart and looked at closely. Kevin's mother struggles to love her strange child, despite the increasingly dangerous things he says and does as he grows up. 7 - In general, do you think in instances of atrocities like those portrayed in the book that the parents are more to blame than the children? Together, they’ll share their thoughts on Franklin (lots of thoughts there), praise Lynne Ramsey’s directorial style, and conclude with an uplifting moment of grounding and self-care. Ultimately the only person who is responsible for Kevin's actions is Kevin. Lionel Shriver's We Need To Talk About Kevin is an elegant exploration of guilt, says Zoë Green Zoë Green Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST First published on Sat 26 Feb 2005 20.05 EST This is the theme song for the film "We Need to Talk About Kevin," written and performed by Randy Newman*. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. In MRI scans of a normal person vs someone with antisocial personality disorder, there are differences, so they can be born. “We need to talk about Kevin” ... We are willing to talk about it openly because it threatens the existence of the community itself. His mom most likely had untreated post partum depression, which caused her to be unable to bond with Kevin. We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, published by Serpent's Tail, about a fictional school massacre. My main question is regarding the relationship between Kevin … Kevin was bad from infancy. We Need to Talk About Kevin expands to more theaters this week. Now she wakes up every morning and wishes she was in France!”. Very … Shriver won the prestigious Orange Prize in 2005, and the book was adapted to screen in 2011. Is anyone else as mystified as I am as to Franklin's apparent blindness to his son's nature, or is Kevin supposed to be a true chameleon with his parents, like sociopaths are supposed to be able to be? Today, they’re kicking off December with their most taboo theme to date: Killer Kids. I don't know about the blame part. Listen via Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Play | Stitcher | RSS. Psychoanalysis is a weekly series on the Consequence Podcast Network that takes an in-depth look at a mental health topic through the lens of horror. It’s a tough topic, but one we need to talk about and this week Jenn, Lara, and Mike tackle Lynne Ramsey’s psychological horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin. There are a lot of layers to this, and I don't have a numerical answer. I changed his school and his "ADD" disappeared. I think Kevin was both born and made, but the degree of which is what I really enjoy discussing. — The Impossible Question of ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: Nature or Nurture? Who says if he wasn't abused everything would be okay. Eva was definitely the only one who saw Kevin for who he really was. 3 - what role does Franklin have, as he excused Kevin's behaviour and refused to believe Eva's concerns? I saw another person assess Eva as being the only one who never underestimated Kevin. Because there are people who are full-fledged psychopaths who don't kill or commit any crimes, despite it being their nature. Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram, — Bookclub – Lionel Shriver – We Need to Talk About Kevin. But are all killers in general made or born? The novel explores the subtle repercussions of maternal ambivalence, nature versus nurture, and the complexities of a mother … Is that within their control? Our therapist called this "parent shopping". One of the hardest things was that nobody believed me about how mean he could be because he was absolutely charming to everyone else. That also brings into question, in the movie more-so than in the book, if Kevin was really evil and Eva saw him for what he was, or if it was her perception and her projecting it on him made him who he was via a lack of parental bond. I think you are on to something though with your point about the narrative style influencing our perception. Directed by Lynne Ramsay. Eva is incredibly unlikeable, but I do feel bad for her considering how much she lost in the end. "Now I'm not so sure," he says (28.52). Franklin (though shown to be a cuddly guy in the movie) didn't see Kevin as he really was and wanted Kevin to be different, looking for his ideal son. It's a weird narrative though if you know anything about very selfish abusive people though, aren't they introspective and they lie to themselves so they never have to feel the guilt she did. It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. reddit has ruined me towards the name kevin. We Need to Talk About Kevin, Lionel Shriver We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2003 novel by Lionel Shriver, It is written from the first person perspective of the teenage killer's mother, Eva Khatchadourian, and documents her attempt to come to terms with her son Kevin and the murders he committed, as told in a series of letters from Eva to her husband. Furthermore, if one doesn't bond with your child, for whatever reason, can they fake it? Directed by Lynne Ramsay, "We Need to Talk About Kevin" is fragments of time, jagged and confusing, lurching around inside her mind. Lionel Shriver's 2003 best-seller, We Need To Talk About Kevin, chronicles a mother coming to terms with the heinous massacre her son committed in an upstate New York high school. Mike breaks down the many different diagnoses related to Kevin’s behavior from Conduct Disorder to Antisocial Personality Disorder and the difficulty in accurately diagnosing them. We're not sure what is more shocking, the violence of the crime, or the diabolically perfect way Kevin carried it out. (*May have actually been written and performed by … Yes and no. The school still wanted me to medicate him. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Can you fake that unconditional love and acceptance? Within the genre of maternal horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin is a doozy. Can we think poorly of a mother who doesn't bond with their child? I knew it was hyper-vigilance (feeling unsafe and therefore unable to concentrate because he was always scanning for threats). The fact that nobody else clued in to Kevin's behavior is no surprise to me. It’s a tough topic, but one we need to talk about and this week Jenn, Lara, and Mike tackle Lynne Ramsey’s psychological horror, We Need to Talk About Kevin. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? — Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath? WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN Lionel Shriver. He’s the only one to blame. Kevin definitely is extremely manipulative as a child, as he shows signs of psychopathy from very early on. The film moves without any pattern between past, present and who knows when. Editing assignment || sum up a feature movie in 10 minutes || Also be sure to follow the Consequence Podcast Network for updates surrounding future programming. The school disagreed and required me to have him tested. We Need to Talk About Kevin is a 2011 psychological thriller drama film directed by Lynne Ramsay.The screenplay, written by Ramsay and Rory Stewart Kinnear, was based on the 2003 novel of the same name by Lionel Shriver.A long process of development and financing began in 2005, with filming commencing in … Kevin actually admired his mother a lot. I'm the adoptive parent of a child who had attachment issues and it was so, so hard. We cling to guidelines like the length of Tilda Swinton's hair to figure out where we are. The novel is presented in a series of letters by Eva Katchadourian to her estranged husband Franklin, whom the reader is led to believe is reading these letters, however at the end of the … Eva and Franklin both had major short-comings as parents, and there was a definite lack of attention from the doctors as they are typically the ones we hope/expect to pick up on certain behaviors as well. Counterpoint, $25 (416p) ISBN 1-58243-267-8. We also need to talk about Eva, the amount of emotional labor placed on mothers, and the complex decision to have children. You make me feel bad; feeling bad makes me mad; ergo, you make me mad. We Need to Talk About Kevin question 329 views. 2 - does Eva carry most of the blame because her abuse towards Kevin and her distinct lack of maternal attachment to Kevin, when we know she has the capacity for it because of how she treats her daughter? Reminded me of that old 1950's movie, The Bad Seed. That pretty much the whole time she is trying to convince herself that Kevin was born that way, and at the very end she recognizes her blame and tries to redeem herself by changing her approach in her relationship with her son. The degree to which is what I find really interesting. However, most serial killers had a fucked up childhood, so they are also made. We need to talk about Kevin's lack of empathy The psychopathic son in Lionel Shriver's novel and Lynne Ramsay's film isn't evil – but has zero empathy Ezra Miller and Tilda Swinton in We Need … The Impossible Question of ‘We Need to Talk About Kevin’: Nature or Nurture? Was Kevin truly born like that, or did Eva's fear and lack of attachment to him over the course of his life, until the very very end of the book, cause/exacerbate the lack of emotional bond that caused him to lack empathy for other people? This is a moderated subreddit. The first school made the problem worse, the second school was a miracle. By Elyse Wanshel. He didn't bullshit her, but he manipulated everyone else. Or nearly everybody is a bit to blame (except for little like his sister). 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